According to reports, Kamala could meet Joe Rogan for a chat. The US elections show the power of podcasting

It was big news in the podcast world when US Vice President Kamala Harris recently sat down with Alex Cooper’s Call Her Daddy for an in-depth interview. That wasn’t just because it was one of the few times Harris faced direct media scrutiny, but also because it signaled the coming of age of podcasts.

Now there are new reports that she could be meeting up with Joe Rogan for his high-profile show. Former President Donald Trump has also said he will speak to Rogan before Election Day.

High-stakes interviews are no longer just the domain of traditional media. Politicians, like celebrities who have a story to tell or a movie to sell, can hop on a podcast with a hopefully personable host to reach a large and potentially new audience. (However, Harris also gave interviews to CBS News, 60 Minutes, The View and CBS’s The Late Show with Stephen Colbert that same week.)

So for the vice president and Democratic presidential nominee, is it a matter of finding a new audience or responding to a different, perhaps gentler, interview style?

Call her who?

If you’ve never heard of “Call Her Daddy,” be aware that the show’s focus is sex and female empowerment. Cooper’s listeners are 70% women and 76% of them are under 35 years old. It’s often compared to the Joe Rogan Experience, a comparison Cooper hates. Cooper has also been called the Oprah Winfrey of her generation, which may say something about her skills as an interviewer or her market value.

The comparisons with Rogan are hard to avoid. Call Her Daddy has been running since 2018. In 2020, Cooper split with her co-host and brought the show to Spotify, which is also home to the Joe Rogan Experience. There, Call Her Daddy became the second most-watched podcast in the world behind Rogan, with an average of 5 million weekly listeners. Spotify gave Cooper $60 million, Rogan’s reported $250 million. This particular gender pay gap was recently narrowed when Cooper brought the podcast to SiriusXM for $125 million.

A Harris appearance on Rogan’s podcast could give her a larger audience than Cooper’s while also gaining access to young male listeners.

Gentle or clever?

Harris’ decision to be interviewed on a podcast aimed at young women sparked criticism from those who saw it as a “soft option” as well as those who do not judge young women or approve of conversations about sex.

These same commentators seem to have missed that Trump has been courting the “manosphere” over the last year, visiting friendly brocasts like This Past Weekend with Theo Von. On other podcasts like “Full Send,” Trump had room for friendly, casual banter on topics ranging from Ice Spice to golf.

Cooper says she also invited the former president on her show to discuss women’s rights.

In the journalistic tradition of podcasts since Serial, Cooper revealed her process and opened her interview with Harris by explaining the reasons behind her questioning. “Let’s be honest, I’m probably not the one having the fracking conversation,” she deadpanned.

Harris said she went on the podcast “to be honest and talk about the things that really matter to people.” There were moments of genuine emotion, such as anger and compassion over the death of a young woman, Amber Thurman, in Georgia in the wake of the US’s new restrictive abortion laws. However, Harris still seemed rehearsed at times, just as people in public have to answer similar questions and make similar speeches over and over again.

The risk for a politician is that the authenticity and intimacy that podcasts are known for could just as easily work against them – a lack of “reality” amplified through headphones, directly into the listeners’ ears.

While Harris’ rhythm sounded familiar toward the end, her anecdotes may have been new to parts of Cooper’s audience. For all claims that the focus on women’s concerns prompted a “soft interview,” it was also a timely reminder of the centrality of reproductive freedom to women’s lives and choice.

The risks of the interview lay more with Cooper, who pointed to the prospect of losing listeners by interviewing a politician, while he wanted Call Her Daddy to be “a place where everyone feels comfortable tuning in.” This is important to her because much of the program’s initial popularity was due to Barstool, a media company known for its conservative leanings.

Another listener

The question remains: Is appearing on hugely popular podcasts with young audiences a good political strategy for Harris? The benefits of appearing on “Call Her Daddy” were clear, as Cooper’s primary audience is young women, who are generally more politically engaged and motivated to vote than young men.

Rogan’s audience is 81% male, with 34% aged 18-35. Connecting with young men may prove more difficult for Harris in the “bro-ey,” jokey setting of the Joe Rogan Experience than with Cooper.

Much will depend on Harris’ interaction with the host, but Rogan isn’t known for hostile interviews and Harris has experience dealing with people of different backgrounds. And her recent appearance on shock jock Howard Stern’s radio show gave her the opportunity to share her love of auto racing.

In a close election that could involve swing voters in six or seven states, such skills on display in podcasting could have an impact on the election. The potential profits seem worth any risk.